Take the 2-minute tour ×
Bicycles Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for people who build and repair bicycles, people who train cycling, or commute on bicycles. It's 100% free, no registration required.

I really don't like indexed shifters, at least on the front. They're harder to adjust, more sensitive to cable stretching, and limit the number of gear combinations you can use (because you can't adjust the front derailleur cage manually to not rub on the chain).

So.. why are they impossible to find these days?

share|improve this question
2  
+1 for old school! –  geoffc Jun 13 '11 at 2:29
2  
FYI, it's common for "touring" bikes (Surly LHT, Trek 520, Novara Randonee, Raleigh Port Townsend, Bianchi Campione, Fuji Touring) to have shifter levers, with the front shifter non-indexed, and the indexing on the rear easily disabled. –  freiheit Jun 13 '11 at 16:34
1  
It's worth pointing out that at least some of Campagnolo's brake-integrated indexed front shifters allow you to micro-adjust the trim of the front derailleur. The real question is why no one has yet re-introduced something like the SunTour Symmetric shifter (youtube.com/watch?v=FyR9Sezf1PM). Seems like Shimano DI2 could do it trivially. –  lantius Jun 14 '11 at 7:19
    
@lantius: I'd never seen the symmetric setup before. It looks like an excellent solution for people with derailleur gears. I suspect the reason you don't see them is that it requires both shifters to be in the same place and that's rare these days. –  Мסž Jun 16 '11 at 4:49
1  
@freiheit: Interesting. I don't really have a problem with indexing on the back -- on the front though the system gets out of alignment seemingly every 10 minutes. –  Billy ONeal Nov 13 '11 at 17:38

4 Answers 4

up vote 10 down vote accepted

There is no 'conspiracy' to keep friction shifters off the market just so that you have to buy the index shifters. It is simply a matter of supply and demand. Nobody in the OEM market wants friction shift gears because bikes with friction-shift simply do not sell. That leaves the after-market and you have a similar position there - the demand does not exist amongst people building up bikes/repair old bikes.

One reason why the replacement part market does not exist is that friction shifters rarely break, even 'back in the day' they were not a common spare for shops to stock in depth.

As for your front-shifting problem, you do have the outer cage 'flat-bit' parallel with the chainset and clearing the outer ring by all of 1-3mm? Without that accurate positioning it is unlikely you will get your front mechanism to work. New cables help, and if you follow the Shimano/SRAM/Campagnolo manual to the letter, making sure no dropouts or derailleurs are bent, you will have a chance of getting optimal shifting.

I know that a simple shift-lever adjustment would be easier, but that is progress for you.

share|improve this answer
    
Haha -- never thought there was a conspiracy -- just was curious if there was a specific reason for it. As for the shifting -- it's the same problem I see on every index shifted bike -- even those that are new. Set the chainring to the smallest gear, and the cassette to the smallest gear (opposite sides of their respective sets of cogs) and the chain WILL grind on the front derailleur cage. With friction shifters, you can just move the cage until it does not grind. With indexed, you're stuck. –  Billy ONeal Jun 13 '11 at 16:21
    
Checkmarked by popular demand. –  Billy ONeal Jun 16 '11 at 17:40
1  
That cog position, commonly called cross chaining, is not recommended for several reasons. The biggest reason is that it causes unnecessary wear and tear on your drivetrain. on an old school bike, with 5-6 rear cogs spaced fairly widely apart, you could get reasonably accurate sifts with a friction shifter and a little practice. Put 10 rear cogs in the same space, and it gets orders of magnitude more difficult. In addition, most quality indexed shifters on a road bike offer a "trim" position on the front shifter. A half shift up or down specifically to address the needs of stubborn fogies. –  zenbike Jul 4 '11 at 6:43
    
So my suggestion would be, learn proper shifting patterns, first, and then consider upgrading your Trek 1500 to something a little more performance oriented before you complain about how the old days were better. You look about 20, BTW. Have you ever ridden a road bike with straight friction shifting? –  zenbike Jul 4 '11 at 6:45
    
I'm sorry if I come across a little annoyed about the question. But I am. You're a Microsoftie, right? This is a little like me buying a first gen EeePC, and then complaining to you because it has no optical drive, or I can't use it to crack a 128 bit TLS key in a usable time frame. Buy good equipment first. Then complain if it doesn't do what it is intended to do. Wouldn't be a bad idea to take your bike down to Woodinville Cycles in Redmond, downtown not Overlake, and ask them to check whether it is adjusted properly to start with. –  zenbike Jul 4 '11 at 6:48

Hehe- I'm a fossil who still uses downtube friction shifters on my 1972-vintage Euro roadster...
But I do admit that as I get even yet older the allure of those nifty "brifters" is there..

Once learned, they are easy to use, forgiving of adjustment, and accommodate a wide variety of gear clusters with no problems. I took my originally 5-speed rear end up to an 8-speed with no change at all to the shifters.

As noted, indexed shifting does have it's problems as well.... I see many kids here at the university with multi-speed mountain bikes who get off and push the bike up hills, or struggling with a way-too-high gear. I have stopped a few and asked why, and the answer is usually..."It's too hard." or more likely, "It shifted OK when I got it, but now it doesn't work." Kind of sad. A well-adjusted gear-train is a joy to use, gears effortlessly leaping from cog to cog. Usually, after an initial adjustment after new-cable stretch, shifters will stay in adjustment for a long time. I'm surprised that riders who are not maintenance-prone don't use the hub-shifters more.

share|improve this answer
    
"...and the answer is usually..."It's too hard." or more likely, "It shifted OK when I got it, but now it doesn't work." Kind of sad." Truth. But more likely a problem with the rider's lack of knowledge or motivation, than with the equipment they've got. –  zenbike Jul 4 '11 at 6:51

One point that seemed to be missed in the answers so far (though I'll admit I didn't read every word) is that indexed shifters are only a small part of indexed shifting.

It used to be that you needed friction shifters because, in order to shift to a larger sprocket, you had to "over-shift" substantially -- push the lever beyond the point where it would eventually end up, then move it back once the chain had begun to move. Because of this, indexed shifting was essentially impossible, even though it was no doubt a sought-after goal of many inventors.

What changed was the chain and sprockets, with carefully-engineered profiles that would cause the chain to "climb" the sprocket if it was pushed ever so slightly in that direction. This invention made indexed shifting possible, and largely eliminated shifting as a major roadblock in the way of a "mass market" for bikes.

But, rather incidentally, the change to chain and sprocket profiles made possible shifting under load, something that was largely impossible before. While many of us would willingly give up indexed shifting (I miss the sensation of the lever that allowed me to inherently know what gear I is in), how many would be happy to give up being able to shift under load?

share|improve this answer
    
Could you not combine the two? (Though honestly, any indexed system I've ever used still has just as much of the overshift problem as my 30 year old "bridgestone" bike -- one has to push the lever past the shift point until the chain moves, then the never returns to the stop point and does the "centering". –  Billy ONeal Nov 13 '11 at 17:37
    
Yes, you could combine the two -- install a friction shifter on a bike with "indexed" chain and sprockets. (But to be frank, I've kind of grown fond of my "brifters" in my old age.) –  Daniel R Hicks Nov 13 '11 at 23:06

What I see is they're forcing bicycles to be like the automobile market; "old is bad" and "replace every 3 years (or sooner if WE TELL YOU TO)". Anything they can do to keep selling parts and bikes is "Good" for the "Economy" (AKA THEM) I just damaged the frame on my 16 year old Specialized Hardrock. The indexed "collar grip" shifters had cracked and failed in the first 6 months, fitted on the thumb lever friction shifters from my previous bike, and replaced parts as they wore out over the years. My new bike is in the garage half disassembled as I refit it, replace the front shocks with a solid fork, friction shifters, 'long enough' seat post on order, and installing my double layer thorn stripping. My real problem is I'm running out of parts as I repair other peoples bikes. Dumping the indexed shifters usually fixes them. Thorn strips and ooze filled tubes fixes their other problems. Indexed shifters are fine if you want to take the time to tune them, and if you ride frequently; tuning them twice a month. I am considering manufacturing my own friction shifters during slack time at work, but it's not a cheap way to do it.

share|improve this answer
    
Im' a mountain biker, do a lot of rockgarden descents, almost downhill type of riding in a cross country bike, the same I use to get to the top of the mountain in first place. I usually spend 20 minutes of indexed shifter tuning that last for 3 or 4 months, so I wouldn't complain... ;) –  Jahaziel Nov 17 '11 at 20:06
    
I found a number of friction shifters with Google. In particular the Falcon shifter appears to be new/new stock and sells for around $10 as set. –  Daniel R Hicks Nov 24 '11 at 15:17

Your Answer

 
discard

By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.