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I have a 2011 Lapierre sensium 3 which I bought new in 2012. It came with 2X10 Ultegra gears which have never really indexed well, needing 2 clicks to change direction. My bikes with 105s work perfectly. When the LH lever quit I bought a new pair of 7000 series 11 speed shifters (cable type) as I already had new short cage 105 and 11-28 cassette which I had changed out for long cage on a new cross bike. So with new shifters, new cables, new (5000 series) 11 speed rear derailleur, new (Sram) chain and new 11 speed 7000 series front derailleur, I can get perfect indexing on the (existing 10 speed) small chainring but if I adjust the indexing to get 1st gear on the big ring it won't drop off when I change up and messes up the indexing on the small ring. I tries a wheel that has worked with 11 speed with no improvement. Thoughts are:- Do I need an 11 speed 105 crankset or perhaps a 7000 series rear derailleur or Shimano chain (Sram works well on my other Shimano bikes)?

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  • Are you sure it's 5000-series? Please check the model number and get back to me!
    – Noise
    May 15, 2022 at 16:30
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    Regardless it sounds like potential derailleur hanger alignment issues
    – Noise
    May 15, 2022 at 16:30
  • It's an RD 5800. I think that the problem could be the wheel, an Ultegra that I bought around 2013. It (just) takes the 11 speed cassette without a spacer but maybe too out of line with the big chainring. I tried it in my 2015 Cannondale Super X (QR but with discs) and it had exactly the same issues. Adjust it so that it takes bottom gear and it takes two clicks to change up through all the lower gears and puts indexing on the small ring out.
    – John Johns
    May 16, 2022 at 15:54

1 Answer 1

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Indexing on a dual front chainring can be a bear sometimes, and in some cases (particular frames, chainstay lengths, etc.) you just cannot get every combination (primarily the small-small or big-big ones) to work rub-free without experiencing some rub/noise from the front derailleur without sacrificing the shifting woes you described. It may be something you simply have to live with, so be prepared for that possibility.

One item to also think about is that you should not usually be riding in the big chainring/big rear cog combination as a rule (same goes with small/small) due to additional drivetrain wear from the chain angles created in this position (you should consider shifting to the small chainring rather than staying in the big/big combo). So having a little noise (not being able to index the big/big for quietness) should not be a priority. That said, it still can be done in some cases.

The Shimano Dealer's Manual (DM-RAFD001-05) for your front derailleur is the guide I use when setting up your 7000 Series Front Derailleur:

Front Derailleur Dealers Manual

This manual supports your FD, along with the Ultegra 8000 and Dura-Ace 9100.

I would suggest following the steps on installation and alignment first, and this is followed by adjustment. Alignment is pretty important because if the alignment/orientation is off, the range of adjustment can be affected. It is pretty detailed, but being detailed oriented, I have had pretty good success by following every minute detail to the letter. Shimano spent a lot of time with these details and they usually get things working to the best shifting performance possible.

One more thing to mention, in case you were unaware of it, is that the front derailleur has more than just two positions (high and low). There are actually two distinct "low" positions as well as two distinct "high" positions for the front derailleur.

Front derailleur shift and trim positions

The image shows positions v and w, which are the two low positions, and positions x and y which are the two high positions. These additional positions are referred to as "trim" positions, and are exactly for what you may be trying to achieve. For your big/big combination, you may be able to reduce the noise (i.e., indexing) in that position by moving from the y position to the x position. This is done by lightly pressing the inner shift lever (what you would use to shift to the small ring) just a little bit. You will hear and feel a minor click as the front derailleur moves from the y position to the x position (slightly left of the y position). If you press the lever further you get the full drop to the small ring (the w position). The v position can be accessed from the w position by the same means (pressing the inner lever again).

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    Thanks, I just fitted the FD R-7000 front derailleur following Shimano's instructions which got rid of the rubbing in 1st gear with the old 10 speed one. I now think that the problem could be the wheel not compatible with 11 speed (Ultegra bought around 2013). Tried it in my Cannondale Super X and it presented exactly the same issues. I'm OK with not using 1st on the big ring but when you adjust for it on the small ring it runs perfectly through all gears but then takes 2 clicks to change up through the lower gears on the big ring.
    – John Johns
    May 16, 2022 at 15:54
  • @JohnJohns, the 11-speed cassette on a 8/9/10 speed freehub is a totally different issue, and probably more important than the FD indexing one. Some have put 11-speed cassettes on 8/9/10 freehubs, but the cassette locknut barely engages the threads of the freehub (potential to strip threads) plus the cassette is too far to the right. It could possibly be indexed, but there is a multitude of issues that are created. I would definitely check into whether you have an 11-speed freehub.
    – Ted Hohl
    May 16, 2022 at 16:02
  • follow on - A 10 speed Shimano cassette requires a 1.0 mm spacer put on the freehub (FH) before the cassette (for an 8/9/10 FH). For an 11 speed FH, a 10 speed cassette needs both a 1.0 mm spacer AND a 1.85 mm spacer. The 1.85 mm is the difference between the 11 speed and 8/9/10 FHs. Side note: a 9 speed Shimano cassette does not use the 1.0 mm spacer the 10 speed does. The 10 speed cassette is 1 mm narrower than a 9 (odd, but true). If your 10 speed cassette had a 1.0 AND a 1.85 mm spacer on the FH, you have an 11 speed FH. Just a 1 mm spacer? then you don't have an 11 speed FH (wheel).
    – Ted Hohl
    May 16, 2022 at 16:13
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    Then looks like it's a 10 speed FH. The 11 speed cassette fits but probably not in line on the big ring. Wheels are fast and light so probably stick with having to play with the gears.
    – John Johns
    May 16, 2022 at 16:34
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    Maybe I can fit an 11 speed freehub to the wheel.
    – John Johns
    May 16, 2022 at 17:10

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