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As you know it’s very hard to get any modern bar end shifters right now. Unfortunately I love them. I have an opportunity to buy Microshift BS-M10 shifters which are meant for 10 speed shimano drivetrains.

Is there enough pull in BS-M10 friction mode, to work with 11 speed derailleur?

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  • This could be predicted pretty accurately using the actuation rate numbers various sources have published, but doing so needs clarification on whether you're talking about a mountain 11 vs road/gravel 11 Shimano derailleur, or something else (like a SRAM road 11 or mtn 11). Jul 19, 2023 at 23:58
  • I'm fine with any derailleur with a clutch, anything that could work. Let's say Shimano Deore RD-M5100. Jul 24, 2023 at 19:12

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This is according Shimano derailleurs only for now and the values are estimated.

MTB 10s pull ratio is 1.2 - which is most likely pull ratio of BS-M10 Microshift shifter. The total length of a pull should be around: 3.4*10=34mm

ROAD 11s (including GRX, as it's compatible with road groups) pull ratio is 1.4 and the cable pull is 2.7*11=29.7

MTB 11s pull ratio is 1.1, and the cable pull is 3.6*11=39.6

CUES 9,10,11 pull ratio is most likely around 1.0, the cable pull is around 3.7*11=40.7

I didn't test it yet, but most likely 10s mtb friction shifter will work with 11s road derailleur. The thing is sometimes, on highest gears shifters pulls more of a cable, the question is if difference between 34-29.7=4.3mm is enough to cover it.

In the end it doesn't makes much sense because the biggest cassette 11-s GRX/road can work with is 40T. To make it work with bigger cog conversion kit is needed. It means that it's probably worth more to use it with 11-42 shimano mtb cassette from economical or reliability reason.

Ref.

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  • To get the total pull in this way you need to multiply by the number of speeds minus 1, so 3.4*9, not 3.4*10. Otherwise it would be like assuming it has movement to give after the last position. It's true that some shifters do have some movement there, but not usually a full click's worth. Aug 1, 2023 at 18:24
  • Great work - thank you for coming back and providing your results to date.
    – Criggie
    Aug 1, 2023 at 23:02
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Most likely not. 11 speed rear derailleurs have a different pull ratio. Your best bet is to choose a "road" derailleur up to 10 speeds, or a "MTB" derailleur up to 9 speeds.

Also a factor is that if you plan to use 11 speed cassettes, the total width of the sprockets is a bit wider. For "MTB" cassettes the largest sprocket slightly overhangs the hub flange. For "road" cassettes where the largest sprocket is not large enough to do that, more room was made in the freehub for 11-speed cassettes.

Note for friction shifting in 11-speed systems, you don't need a 11-speed rear derailleur. You can use any rear derailleur as the pull ratio just has to cover everything from largest sprocket to smallest sprocket, it doesn't have to be compatible with indexing.

Also a mystery to me is why would anyone who favors bar-end shifters use 11-speed systems. For economy or durability reasons, 8 speed wins, 9 speed comes second, 10 speed comes third and 11-and-anything-more speed loses. Usually the reason for using bar-end shifters is either their lower purchase price (but the gap between bar-end and STI has narrowed due to bar-end becoming more-and-more expensive), or their far better durability.

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  • BS-M10 is compatible with 10 speed shimano mtb. Jul 25, 2023 at 8:41
  • The last paragraph kind of make sense. The only advantage of it in terms of touring is 11s 53 cog. The biggest reliable 10s right now is 48t Cues Jul 25, 2023 at 8:49
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    If BS-M10 is compatible with 10-speed Shimano MTB, then it will be compatible with 11-speed Shimano road too in friction mode. The reason being that 10-speed MTB requires more cable pull than 11-speed road. I didn't know they make bar-end shifters for MTB pull ratios.
    – juhist
    Jul 25, 2023 at 14:45

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